Chapter 107-Hardshells & Predestination X

In 1863 Elder Joel Hume had a debate with Stinson in which he said these things relative to the doctrine of predestination.

"It is to endeavor to enforce upon the minds of this audience, that I have been advocating the doctrine of the predestination of all things. But I do not believe it, not a word of it. I, being no scholar, may not quite understand how to present my views upon the subject. I would simply say this, as the best I can do, that in my judgment there is a vast difference between the foreknowledge of God and the predestination of God. I might thus present the matter: God has a permissive will, and he has a positive will. By that permissive will, all the wickedness, sin and rebellion, that has ever cursed the earth has been allowed, but not decreed."  (2nd speech, emphasis mine)

This citation is one of the first that I have seen, from the 19th century, wherein objections to the doctrine of the absolute predestination of all things are uttered.  That the doctrine objected to was the view of the vast majority of "Primitive" or "Old School" Baptists in the 1830-1865 period is beyond dispute, as I have demonstrated in previous chapters.  The decade from 1865-1875 seems to be a turning point in the developmental history of the Hardshell denomination.  It was not only in this decade where the second generation of Hardshells began to assert themselves, but was also the decade when the "anti-means" wing of the denomination began to assert itself.  This is evident from reading Elder Watson's book "The Old Baptist Test" (1866) and from taking note of the debate that Elder John A. Thompson held in Reynoldsburg, Ohio (1873) with Campbellite debater Ben J. Franklin.  One of the debate propositions concerned the "means question."  Elder Thompson advocated the position that became, in the late 19th century, the stated view of the denomination, the view that now universally characterizes the whole denomination. 

This decade also saw the rise in the number of debaters among the Hardshells.  Prior to this time, there was only a small handfull of Hardshells engaged in debates.  Of these Elders Richard Newport and Elder Joel Hume were the most prominent.  Elder Newport was part of the "Two Seed" faction and alligned with Elder Daniel Parker, one of the first founders of the Hardshell denomination.  This was also the decade when Elder Lemuel Potter began his debating career and when he began to become one of the foremost spokesmen for the denomination, one of their chief apologists. 

This decade saw the rise of those who began to deny the traditionally held belief regarding the divine decrees and the absolute predestination of all things and of those who deny the use of means in salvation and the new birth, and it was also a time when the Hardshells began to formulate a more precise apology for their opposition to evangelism and church mission work.  After some 30-40 years of defending their opposition they had come to see how all their arguments were weak and that they could not oppose it so long as they retained a belief in means.  Their previous arguments against mission work was based upon attacking methods, but, as Bob Ross has pointed out in his work on the history of the Hardshells, such arguments began to "wear thin."  It was a very schismatic and divisive decade that began to create various factions, each claiming to be the true and original or "old line" Baptists. 

Hume's error is his exclusion of God's permissive will from God's decrees.  If God permits, it is because he previously chose to permit, thus his permission is part of his will, part of his decrees, part of his eternal counsel. 

Hume said:

"He has a positive will, if he so desires, which can stop the sinner from cursing and swearing. Can not God stop the thief and murderer on his way to do his deeds? Now I do not wish to be understood, when I speak of the will of God being accomplished, as having any reference to this permissive will; for I want you to understand that all wicked actions of the sons and daughters of men come from a different source, from the wicked one. God has no hand in directing to evil, but he has a hand in directing the minds of men to do good actions. But individuals who act wickedly, act in an opposite spirit from the Lord Jesus Christ. I have special reference to God's positive will, what he designs to be accomplished. Now, will our brother tell us in what other light we are to understand the quotation made from Isaiah xlvi., 10, in which Jehovah says, "My counsels shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure," etc."

Again, Hume errs in divorcing God's willing permission from God's eternal decisions.  It is true that the will of God is either permissive or positive.  But, the eternal decrees include God's choices to permit.

Hume wrote:

"I know, my friends, that there is a confession of faith, that has this clause in it, "We believe that God foreordained and decreed all things whatsoever comes to pass." Now, I would have you understand that the Regular Baptists do not believe the doctrine, at least I can say I do not believe that God, in any sense of the term, is the author of evil, neither original nor personal evil. In reference to the violation of God's will, in the garden, by our first parents, I would have you understand, I believe God knows what Adam would do; but, at the same time, I would have you understand further, that I do not believe God influenced Adam to those acts, but he was influenced by the opposite spirit, the spirit of Anti-Christ. I trust I am understood upon that subject."

http://www.gospeltruth.net/Hume_Stinson_atonement/hume_stinson_entiretext.htm

Hume, of course, was incorrect about the beliefs of the "Regular Baptists."  A large majority of them confessed to believe the London Confession and that all things come to pass because of God's decrees, that they "extended even to the first fall," as the Confession states. 

In the remainder of this chapter we will look at what Dr. John Gill wrote in his "Body of Doctrinal Divinity," in Book 2, Chapter 1, "Of The Internal Acts And Works Of God; And Of His Decrees In General."  We have already cited from Dr. Gill to prove the supralapsarian view.

Gill wrote:

"...among these internal acts of the mind of God, are his purposes and decrees; and these are "purposed in himself", (Eph. 1:9) for what is true of one of his purposes, is true of all; and that there are such in God is certain; and which respect, not only the affairs of grace, but those of providence; even the whole earth, and all things in it, (Rom. 9:11; Eph. 1:11, 3:11; Isa. 14:24, 27) and which go by various names in scripture; sometimes they are called, "the thoughts of his heart"; these are the deep things of God, which lie in the inmost recesses of his mind; are only known by himself, and searched by his Spirit; as the thoughts of a man can only be known by the spirit of man within him (Ps. 33:11; Jer. 29:11; 1 Cor. 2:10, 11). Sometimes they are called the "counsels" of God, said to be "of old", ancient ones, even from eternity; and to be "faithfulness and truth"; faithfully and truly performed in time, (Isa. 25:1)...They are sometimes called "decrees", and so we commonly call them; being the determinations of the mind of God; what he has fixed, settled, and resolved upon, (Dan. 4:17; Zeph. 2:2) and so the "determinate counsel" of God, (Acts 2:23) sometimes they are expressed by "preordination" and predestination; so Christ is said to be "foreordained" before the foundation of the world, (1 Peter 1:20) and men are said to be "predestinated" to the adoption of children, and to an inheritance, (Eph. 1:5, 11) that is, afore appointed thereunto in the decrees of God; and often they are signified by his "will" and "pleasure"; by the "counsel of his will"; and by his "counsel" and "pleasure", (Rom. 9:19; Eph. 1:11; Isa. 46:10) they containing and expressing his mind and will; what it is his pleasure should be."

Notice that Gill says that God's decrees, or his predestination, extend to "all things."

Gill wrote:

"The "Sovereignty" of God over all, and his "independency", clearly show, that whatever is done in time, is according to his decrees in eternity; for if anything comes to pass without the will of God, or contrary to it, or what he has not commanded, that is decreed, (Lam. 3:37) how is he a sovereign Being, that does according to his will in heaven and in earth, and works all things after the counsel of his will? (Dan. 4:35; Eph. 1:11) and if anything is by chance and fortune, or the mere effect of second causes, and of the free will of men, independent of the will of God, and if he works under these, in subserviency to them, and takes his measures of operation from them, then he must be dependent on them; and how then can it be said with truth, that "of him, and through him, and to him, are all things?" (Rom. 11:36)."

"Whatever is done in time is according to his decrees in eternity."  That was the view of the London Confession and of the Old Baptists but is not the view of the great majority of those who today call themselves "Primitive Baptists."  Gill says that nothing comes to pass "without the will of God."  Nothing comes to pass "independent of the will of God," all being dependent upon the will of God.  Finally, he cites Romans 11: 36 which clearly supports the view that "all things" come to pass because God has willed it. 

Gill wrote:

"The "immutability" of God requires eternal decrees in him, concerning everything that is in time; for if anything is done in time, that did not fall under his notice and will in eternity, this must be new to him, and produce a change in him; or if an after will in time arises in him, respecting anything he would have done, which he willed not before, this argues a change in him; whereas, in him there is "no variableness, nor shadow of turning". The knowledge of God, supposes and clearly proves and establishes the decrees of God; he is a "God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed", (1 Sam. 2:13) he has knowledge of all actions done in time; and such an exact knowledge of them, as if they were weighed by him, and before him; and this knowledge of them is not successive, as they are performed; "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning", or from eternity, (Acts 15:18) both what he would do himself, and what he wills to be done by others: and this knowledge is founded on his decrees; he knows that such and such things will be, because he has determined they shall be."

How the Conditionalist faction of Hardshells can claim to be "primitive" or "original" in their denial that all things have been decreed by God from eternity, in the light of these words from one of the leading spokesmen for the "Old Baptist" faith, is astounding.  Today's Hardshells will not accept what Gill here affirms is the beliefs of the Old Baptists.

Gill wrote:

"Secondly, The extent of the decrees and purposes of God, deserve notice and consideration: and they reach to all things that come to pass in the world, from the beginning to the end of it. The world, and all things in it, were created by and according to the will and pleasure of God (Rev. 4:11)."

Again, today's Conditionalist Hardshells utterly reject these teachings of Gill, and which are none other than the teachings of scripture. 

Gill wrote:

"In short, everything respecting all the individuals of the world, that have been, are, or shall be, all correspond with the decrees of God, and are according to them; men's coming into the world, the time of it, and all circumstances attending it; all events and occurrences they meet with, throughout the whole time of life; their places of habitation, their stations, calling, and employment; their circumstances of riches and poverty, of health and sickness, adversity and prosperity; their time of going out of the world, with everything attending that; all are according to the determinate counsel and will of God, (Eccl. 3:1, 2, 7:14; Acts 17:26; Job 14:5) and particularly, all that relate to the people of God, as well their spiritual and eternal, as temporal concerns; their election of God, their redemption by Christ, their effectual calling, which is according to the purpose of God; the time, manner, and means of it; all their changes in life; their afflictions and distresses, deliverances, and salvations from temptation and trouble; yea, even the final state and condition of good men and bad men, is settled and determined: but this will be more particularly considered under the special decrees of God, respecting rational creatures. All that Christ was to be, do, and suffer for his people, are what the hand and counsel of God before determined; his incarnation, the time of his coming into the world; all that he met with, from the hand of God, from men and devils, while in it; his sufferings and death, and all circumstances attending the same (Gal. 4:4; Acts 4:28, 2:23; Luke 22:22, 37). In a word, everything that comes to pass in this world, from the beginning to the end of it, is pre-ordained; everything, good and bad; good by his effective decrees; that is, such by which he determines what he will do himself, or shall be done by others; and evil things, by his permissive decrees, by which he suffers things to be done; and which he overrules for his own glory; yea, things contingent, which, with respect to second causes, may seem to be, or not be, as the free actions of men; such as the prophesies, founded on decrees, concerning the names of Josiah and Cyrus, and of actions being performed by them of their own free will, many hundreds of years before they were born; nay, even things of the least importance, as well as the greatest; the hairs of mens’ heads are numbered; two sparrows, not worth more than a farthing, and yet fall not to the ground, without the knowledge, will, and purpose of God (Matthew 10:29, 30)."

Dr. Gill believed that God's permissive will was a part of his decrees and in no way was inconsistent with the belief that God's will is the reason behind all things.  Dr. Gill did not believe that God positively wills sin, but that he allows, because God intends to bring good from it.  Again, this was the view of the old Baptists who wrote the London Confession, was the view of the English Particular Baptists during the days of Dr. Gill, and was the view of the first Hardshell founding fathers.  It is not, however, the view of today's Conditionalist faction, the faction that represents the far greater part of the "Primitive Baptist" denomination.

On Lamentations 3:37 Gill wrote:

"Ver. 37. Who [is] he [that] saith, and it cometh to pass?.... Or, "who [that] says [this shall be], and it cometh to pass?" or, "who [is] he [that] saith [this shall] come to pass?" {i} this, or that, or the other thing, he wills and desires, and his heart is set upon:

[when] the Lord commandeth [it] not? has not willed and decreed it, but determined the contrary; for nothing escapes his knowledge and foreknowledge; or can resist his will; or control his power; or frustrate his councils, and counterwork his designs; whatever schemes men form to get riches, obtain honour, do mischief to others, prolong life to themselves, and perpetuate their names to posterity, being contrary to the purpose of God, never succeed; whenever they do succeed in any of the above instances, it is because God has commanded, or he has determined, it should be so; as in the instances of Joseph's brethren, in their usage of him; and of the Jews, in the crucifixion of Christ, Pr 16:9."  (Commentary)

Again, today's Hardshells denounce such teachings and yet claim to be "Primitive Baptists"!  They are not "primitive" on the nature and causes of regeneration, on God's use of means, and they are not "original" regarding the decrees of God.

On Romans 11:36 Gill wrote:

"Ver. 36. For of him, and through him, and to him are all things,.... Not only all things in nature and providence, he being the Maker and efficient cause of things, and the preserver and supporter of them their beings, and to whose glory they are all designed and directed; but all things in grace owe their original to him, as their first cause; they are produced by him, and make for his glory; they all spring from his sovereign will, are brought about by his almighty power, and tend to the glory of his grace; as does every thing in election, redemption, and regeneration..."

Dr. Gill here believes that "all things" is all inclusive, and does not mean "some things only."  He believes what is the stated belief of the old Baptists who wrote the 1689 London Confession, that God is the "first cause."  If one accept that one simple premise as true, then he cannot help but believe that everything is caused by the will of God.  If one accepts the view that nothing can occur unless God positively causes it, or allows it, then he cannot help but believe that everything is the result of God's will.   

On Proverbs 16:4 Gill wrote:

"Ver. 4. The Lord hath made all [things] for himself...this is chiefly, if not solely, to be understood of God's decrees and purposes; and of his ordering and appointing all things to bring about his own glory. Every thing is appointed of God; he has foreordained whatever comes to pass; there is a purpose for everything under the heavens, and a time fixed for the execution of it. Junius restrains it to "all men"; but it is true of all creatures and things, though especially men: all things are appointed by the Lord, respecting the temporal estate of men; their birth, and the time of it, with all the circumstances attending it; the place of their abode, their calling, station of life, and usefulness; all adverse and prosperous dispensations; their death, with all the events leading to it: and so likewise all things respecting their spiritual and eternal estate..."

If Dr. Gill were living today, he would be rejected as a heretic by most of today's so called Primitive Baptists, for saying such things.  He would be called an "Absoluter."  Hardshells would say that he believes that God is the cause and author of sin.  Gill would be accused of being "Antinomian."   The Hardshells simply have no basis to believe that Gill was a Hardshell as respecting his views on gospel means and on predestination.  Gill, like the London Confession, is a good criterion for judging who is "primitive." 

On Romans 8:28 Gill wrote:

"And we know that all things work together for good...all evil beings, as devils, persecuting magistrates, heretics, and false teachers: all things, good and bad: all good things, outward peace and prosperity, external gifts, the ministry of the word, the administration of ordinances, church censures, admonitions, and excommunications; all evil things, sin the evil of evils: original sin, or the fall of Adam, which contains all other sins in it, was attended with aggravating circumstances, and followed with dismal consequences, yet has been overruled for good; hereby a Saviour became necessary, who was sent, came, and wrought out salvation; has brought in a better righteousness than Adam lost; entitled his people to a better life than his was, and makes them partakers of the riches both of grace and glory: actual sin, inward or outward; indwelling sin; which is made use of, when discovered, to abate pride, to lead to an entire dependence on Christ, to teach saints to be less censorious, to depend on the power and grace of God to keep them, and to wean them from this world, and to make them desirous of another, where they shall be free from it; outward sins, of others, or their own; the sins of others, of wicked men, which observed, raise an indignation in the saints against sin, and a concern for God's glory, and to look into their own hearts and ways, and admire the grace of God to them, that this is not their case; of good men, which are recorded, and may be observed, not for example and encouragement in sin, but for admonition, and to encourage faith and hope under a sense of it; of their own, for humiliation, which issues in weakening the power of sin in themselves, and the strengthening of the graces of others..."

Again, Gill would be denounced by most of today's Hardshells as being an "Absoluter heretic" for saying such things. 

Gill continued:

"...but from all this it does not follow, that God is the author of sin, only that he overrules it to wise and gracious purposes; nor should any take encouragement to sin, to do evil that good may come; nor is sin itself a real good; nor is it to be said that it does no hurt; for though it cannot hinder the everlasting salvation of God's people, it does a great deal of hurt to their peace and comfort; and that it is made to work in any form or shape for good, is not owing to its own nature and influence, which is malignant enough, but to the unbounded power and unsearchable wisdom of God: all evils or afflictions, spiritual and temporal, work together for good; all spiritual ones, such as the temptations of Satan, which are made useful for humiliation, for the trial of grace, to show us our weakness, our need of Christ, and to conform us to him, and also to excite to prayer and watchfulness; the hidings of God's face, which make his presence the more prized when enjoyed, and the more desirable. Temporal afflictions, afflictions in body, name, or estate, nay even death itself, all work together for the good of God's people."

Gill did not believe that God was the "author of sin," nor that such a view was deducible from the proposition that affirms that "nothing can come to pass unless God will it."  He did not believe that God being the "first cause" meant that God was the "author of sin."  God is the first "cause" of sin, but not the "author" of it, in the sense discussed by theologians.  If "author" means the same as "first cause," then yes, God is the "author" of sin.  But, he is not the "author" of sin in the sense that he is the immediate and direct cause of sin, or in that he delights in it.   He does not will or suffer sin for its own sake, as the ultimate end, but he rather suffers its existence, so that by its existence he may work his own will in bringing about a greater good.